Building Resilience to Stand Up for What You Believe In

Being Part of the Change isn't Always Easy...

It's not easy to be part of the change our world so urgently needs ... and it's even harder not to burn out or completely disappear into our work to make that change happen.

Belinda Clemmensen, founder of The Women's Leadership Intensive and author of Women, Leadership, and Saving the World, shares with us the importance of standing up for what you believe in, leading from your core values, and nurturing your resilience on the path to change. 

Powerful Tidbits Belinda Shared in This Episode...

• What happens when disappearing into work to cope with stressful situations doesn't work anymore
• Redefining what it means to work less and play more in a way that fits with YOUR values
• Why we need to stop looking at rest as a bridge to more productivity
• How Belinda connected to FREEDOM as one of her core values (hint: it wasn't easy)

Check Out All the Goodies We Talked About...

👉 Belinda's Free Mini Online Course: Inspired to Lead 

👉 Belinda's Book: Women, Leadership, and Saving the World

👉Blog: How to Nurture Connections Through Compassion

👉 Book Recommendations:  The Five Best Books To Help Build Resilience In Difficult Times

Changing the World One Leader at a Time!

Belinda Clemmensen is a professional certified coach and leadership development consultant who had a mid-life wake-up call to rethink everything she'd learned over 25+ years in leadership and take a new path. The Women's Leadership Intensive is leadership development by women, for women and our mission is to inspire, empower, equip and support women to lead the change the world needs, because the world needs changing, and it will be women who lead the way to get it done.

Connect with Belinda!
Instagram | LinkedIn | Facebook | Website  | Book

About Lindsay
Lindsay Johnson, aka The Radical Connector, is a business coach for service-based businesses, online educators, and coaches tired of hustle culture, bro-marketing, and pretending to be someone they’re not. Lindsay’s signature Ick-Free Sales Community and anti-hustle approach to business is a much-needed breath of fresh air for entrepreneurs doing too dang much.

🤟 Get Lindsay's Un-Hustle Your Business Starter Kit

Connect with Lindsay
YouTube | Instagram | Website | Podcast | Blog

Transcript

Belinda podcast-edited

[00:00:00] Belinda:  I'd really think trying to do this stuff alone is way too hard and way too lonely.

[00:00:06] Belinda: I think we have to join together. We have to have those connections to other people, for many reasons, but I, I also think we have to let those connections be imperfect. If we're expecting it to be ideal, right? Like everyone who wants, women's equality or women's equity is gonna see things the same way, and we're gonna agree on everything, then we're gonna be really disappointed when that's not the case.

[00:00:24] Belinda: So where can we find the common ground? Where can we accept the fact that our alliances are not going to be perfect and everybody's still learning? Where can we forgive each other? When we mess up, which we all do. If we're looking for the ideal, we're gonna be disappointed.

[00:00:38] Belinda: If we're looking for some common ground, we will find it. With these huge systemic problems, more and more, I think it's gonna come down to this ground swell. There have to be enough of. Standing up and saying no to this and yes. To that, or, unacceptable.

[00:00:52] Belinda: I won't take it anymore, whatever that is. Yeah. 

[00:00:55] Lindsay: Welcome to the work, less play more podcasts for busy entrepreneurs who are ready [00:01:00] to ditch the hustle. Stop burning on busy work and get back to having a life. My name's Lindsay Johnson, AKA The Radical Connector, and I spent the last 10 years teaching first time entrepreneurs, how to get customers and make money.

[00:01:12] Lindsay: Listen in, as I chat with other hustle, recovering business owners, as we share our top tips, for you guessed it working less and playing more. Let's do this. . Hello friends. Oh boy. I have one heck of a podcast interview coming up for you right away here this week. We are talking to Belinda Clemson. She is a professional certified coach and a leadership development consultant who had a midlife wake up call and began to rethink everything she learned over the past 25 plus years in leadership and decided to take a new path.

[00:01:48] Lindsay: In fact, if I could share a quick anecdote. I remember talking to Belinda a few years ago and she was telling me about her experience in leadership and said, Lindsay, I can count the number of real leaders that I've [00:02:00] coached over the past 25 years on one hand. And it really did lead to this like Holy smokes, the way that we lead and the way that we teach leadership needs to change. The Women's Leadership Intensive is leadership developed by Women for Women and gender non-conforming folks, and their mission is to inspire, empower, equip, and support people to lead the change the world needs because friends, the world needs changing.

[00:02:28] Lindsay: It will be women and non-binary folks who lead the way and get it done.

[00:02:32] Lindsay: Now we get into it in this conversation, we talk about the boxes that we get put into. And how to strip them away to connect to our real identities. We talk about our values and how we begin to live by values and not those values that are created from an icky place around judgment and moralizing what we believe, but really understanding what is important to us

[00:02:56] Lindsay: and how we want to exist and impact change in the world and leading [00:03:00] from that place. We talk about the different types of leadership and the opportunities to be a leader from running a company to the way you handle a minor inconvenience at the grocery store.

[00:03:09] Lindsay: We also talk about how it's possible to keep our hearts and our heads in it when we are working so hard for change and coming up against resistance and the feeling of constantly taking two steps forward and one step back.

[00:03:23] Lindsay: If you are a person committed to being a part of the change that we are all working towards in this world, and you wanna explore ways that you can stand up and lean into what leadership means to you, you are going to love our conversation today.

[00:03:39] Lindsay: All right, friends, are you ready? Let's do it. Hello, Belinda. How are you doing? 

[00:03:45] Belinda: I am. Great. Hello, Lindsay, how are you doing? 

[00:03:49] Lindsay: I am doing very well. 

[00:03:50] Lindsay: I'm so excited for you to get into, to listen to Belinda and me today, we have the best conversations. Every time we talk. So we thought, what the heck? Why aren't we doing a [00:04:00] podcast? Here we go. Now, Belinda, you and I met, how, how did we meet originally? 

[00:04:06] Belinda: We met in like 2017 or something at a can WCC Canadian women's chamber of commerce event at make lemonade in Toronto.

[00:04:16] Lindsay: Oh my gosh. Yes. Oh my gosh. Make lemonade. A coworking space in Toronto. That is, is now gone. Pandemic shakes, fist pandemic. That's right, but we've known each other for a while and we've gotten to converse through some pretty big global events over this time. 

[00:04:32] Belinda: Yes, we have, the world has changed. Many times since we first met.

[00:04:38] Lindsay: Yeah. And that's, that's sort of what is bringing us here together? I think it was like our last conversation. I don't even remember what it was, but I remember we got like right into it and, and just sort of. Talking about, I, I was at a point where I was like, nothing matters. the world's on fire. Like I'm having a hard time staying grounded and wanting to even, [00:05:00] even try anymore. And it was sort of a, I, I think it's a common sentiment shared by a lot of people who were working for change in the world. 

[00:05:09] Belinda: Totally agree. And I think when we feel like we are able to see some kind of outcomes from our efforts or see some kind of alignment happening around us, it keeps us going and it keeps the fuel. Keeps our fuel tanks full. And then there's other times where, uh, it's almost like all we wanna do is pull covers up over our heads and just stay in bed because. Everything out there just feels like way too big insurmountable and the bigger that feels, the smaller we feel sometimes. 

[00:05:45] Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. Have you had to navigate that at a deeply personal level for yourself over the past few years? 

[00:05:53] Belinda: Yes. I mean, there's a couple things. One is I, you know, I'm a very [00:06:00] practical person. I grew up with a workaholic dad and so I learned to work. And so one of the things that I did, like pandemic wise or whatever as a coping strategy was I rolled up my sleeves and I just started.

[00:06:15] Belinda: Work it, you know, whatever I could, whether it was getting me somewhere or not. So that's kind of my initial thing. I just start doing stuff. When that starts to feel empty, which inevitably it does. That's when I really go into more of a crisis mode. Yeah, it's like, okay, that initial strategy that I learned as a child just isn't gonna work anymore.

[00:06:37] Belinda: And so now I need to peel into what's the deeper layer under that. And that takes me down that journey. I, um, I think I'm old enough now that when I go into that place of crisis, I recognize it. Growth mm-hmm it doesn't scare me as much as it used to. 

[00:06:53] Lindsay: Yeah. Have you gotten to a point where, so I give some context, a very similar story. I [00:07:00] had, I came from a family where both parents worked a lot and both grand sets of grandparents worked a lot. Um, you know, they would've been sort of. First born first Canadian generation Canadian and raised by family who family's parents who immigrated here and the work ethic was, was intense. And there wasn't a lot of room for play.

[00:07:20] Lindsay: You know, that's where this podcast comes from, work less play more because I've had to learn how to incorporate play, cuz it's always been about work and work and work and work and work some more. And that was how I dealt with things. Any, literally anything. Crisis wise, internally or externally, I dealt with through work.

[00:07:41] Belinda: Totally. And that's, you know, I was actually laughing as I was getting prepared for our conversation today. I was looking at it. I, you know, on the zoom screen, it shows up work less, play more, and it just made me laugh because it's, it's, you'd think that would be easier. But if you've grown up with that crazy [00:08:00] work ethic, then it's almost like, I completely forget. Play feeds me. Yeah. And it's necessary. And it's, uh, it's part of what keeps me whole. 

[00:08:12] Lindsay: Yes. Well, and it's interesting because, and I, and don't worry, I haven't forgotten that question. We're getting back to it, but it, it. Makes me think about how in the nature of what I do and the folks that I work with, we have to navigate burnout a lot.

[00:08:27] Lindsay: That is the nature. I think of entrepreneurs, especially in the first few years is getting on that burnout cycle because there is a lot of work in the beginning and we haven't regulated our own. Work work, play, work, rest balance. And in the back of my mind, I always think if you rest, if you play, if you do something else besides work, it will actually make you work more efficiently.

[00:08:52] Lindsay: It will make you work better. You'll be more creative. You'll be more productive. But I don't wanna say that because then what people hear [00:09:00] is, oh, okay. I'll take a three day break and then I'll be able to work even harder. 

[00:09:03] Belinda: It's it's it's what is, um, yeah, like what is it in service of, right. Mm-hmm so if you're just taking it's this, this little game we play in our minds, right?

[00:09:12] Belinda: So it's like, I know that rest and play are important for me to be able to, you know, be more effective or more efficient or whatever it is we wanna get out of our work. But if we do it just for that, mm-hmm then I think there's always a place in our minds where we're thinking about the work part of it.

[00:09:28] Belinda: Yeah. Or we're doing it as a tick on the tick box. Yep. And it doesn't have the same impact. And I think what, what I really think of these days as rest and play is a lot more freedom. Yeah. To just not have the list, not have the tick boxes, not have an agenda, not know, not have answers to anything 

[00:09:51] Lindsay: yeah that's rest. Well, because what ends up happening, you know, to your point is that the rest becomes work. The play becomes work because it is something I am [00:10:00] doing with an end result, expectation of more work, more productivity. I'm very similar.

[00:10:05] Lindsay: I don't want an agenda there's days where I'm like, I don't, I'm gonna sleep in and play on my phone until three o'clock. I don't care. Like, well, I mean, that's a little bit too late for me, but like, I'm gonna go putter around and walk around. Like, there's just no agenda. There's just nothing to do. There's no one to, to be accountable to.

[00:10:19] Lindsay: Have you found that easy to get into that place or did you, did it take you a while? Did you still feel a little bit stressed when there was an aimlessness to the rest? 

[00:10:29] Belinda: I think it's easier now, but it's because I've gone through a few years of just really trying to get connected to my values, my core values.

[00:10:39] Belinda: And what I've realized is one of my core values is freedom. Yeah. Now I was not raised with that value. I was raised with. These, these are the words that echo in my mind, you can't just do what you want, you know? Mm, ouch. Ouch. Right. So that's, that's been my psyche and my, my Mo for my whole life. And now as I go deeper into what are my core [00:11:00] values, not the ones I inherited, but the ones that are really in me.

[00:11:03] Belinda: Yeah. I know that freedom is one of those values. And so that is allowed me to give myself permission. Yeah. Because when I'm in that place of. Just not having an agenda and letting things unfold. It's in service of my freedom value. 

[00:11:19] Belinda: So when I started, um, doing my work with women's leadership intensive, one of the things I knew very clearly was that we wanted to work on values driven leadership mm-hmm and purpose driven leadership. Right? So that it comes from the core of who a person is and what really matters. Because if we just do leadership development work of like, well, you do this. And then you do that. You lead teams, you coach people, blah, blah, blah, more check boxes, more check boxes. And it, again, it feels empty. It feels not personal. And I think what, what it drives us to is decisions that just create more check boxes. Yeah. Decisions that are don't necessarily have positive impact in the [00:12:00] world.

[00:12:00] Belinda: Right. They're just creating. More check boxes, more, more churn, more profit, more whatever. Well, and it sounds like what I'm hearing you say is more disconnect from the core of the value. Exactly, exactly. So I knew that wasn't how I wanted to build our leadership development. And I knew that the women that I was working with at the time didn't wanna lo lead that way didn't wanna live that way.

[00:12:23] Belinda: And so we baked these values exercises into our courses, and I always do all of the exercises every year. I'm on the same journey. Mm. Right. I'm not just standing at the front of the room, telling people, Hey, you should do your values. I'm like, no, this is I go deep every time. And so I think it took me like maybe two or three years of doing that to even speak the word freedom to myself.

[00:12:51] Lindsay: So, what was the tipping point? When did you finally connect to my value was one of my core values is freedom. And here's how I'm, here's what that [00:13:00] looks like to me. 

[00:13:01] Belinda: Yeah, it was, you know, it was really an unlearning of the value of being reliable mm-hmm , which is what I learned in my family. And I, I believe in reliability, it's not going away.

[00:13:13] Belinda: Like it is a big part of who I am. But when I carried that reliability and the, and the work ethic and the dependability and all that too far, what I got was resentment. 

[00:13:26] Lindsay: Yes. Right. Hyper, hyper dependability, hyper reliability, 

[00:13:32] Belinda: and no freedom for me. Yeah. So I think what really helped me to understand and say the word freedom and start to lean into freedom for myself was that I was really overdoing it.

[00:13:45] Belinda: On the other side of that, I was overdoing it on the value that's intention with freedom. 

[00:13:51] Lindsay: Yeah. And I'm, I'm gonna repeat that you were overdoing it with the value. That intention was freedom. Nope. I don't get it. You [00:14:00] gotta do it again. 

[00:14:00] Belinda: So, so a lot of times our values come in pairs. Yeah.

[00:14:03] Belinda: Right. So on the one hand I've got, let's say let's use one. That's pretty universal. Let's say caring about others. right. Could be a value and a way of living your life. That's that's, you know, leads to all kinds of good things. Yeah. On the other hand, we've got caring for self mm-hmm right. Those two values live in tension

[00:14:22] Belinda: we can do too much of one or too much of the other. Yeah. But the reality is we need some of both. Yeah. Right. We can't just say I'm gonna be all about others and forget about. But we also, can't just say, I'm gonna be all about self and forget about others, because then we start to experience all these downsides, these consequences.

[00:14:38] Lindsay: Yeah. 

[00:14:39] Belinda: So when I'm looking at the value of freedom, a value that is intention with that is reliability. Let's call it. I was way overdoing my reliability. Like you could count on me for anything every day, but what that meant was I was so reliable that I was never free. 

[00:14:56] Lindsay: And it's very much echoing. This [00:15:00] conversation we're having on, on bigger scales and in, and in different pockets around binaries and how this black and white thinking this a or B this or that.

[00:15:10] Lindsay: And I know for myself, I've really been on a path of not using the word or using the word and freedom and reliable. Right? 

[00:15:19] Belinda: Exactly. Exactly. And it's not like, I mean, I don't want to be a hundred percent free. Right. I want to be also be able to have people in my life, rely on me for things. And sometimes that means I do what is required in the situation instead of what I would rather do.

[00:15:38] Belinda: Yeah. That's okay. That's that's part of being human. 

[00:15:42] Lindsay: Well, and even to explore what you just said about not wanting to be a hundred percent free, well, what does a hundred percent free look like? You know, it reminds me as I was talking with somebody and they said I'm doing the bare minimum. And I was like, or you're doing the maximum of what you're able to do right now.[00:16:00] 

[00:16:00] Lindsay: Right. Does a hundred percent free have to be. I'm not accountable or responsible or show up for anybody else. Maybe a hundred percent free. Is that a hundred percent of your definition of freedom? So then what are, what does being free look like to me? And how will I know when I am living a hundred percent in my definition of freedom, that's it.

[00:16:21] Belinda: That's exactly it. 

[00:16:23] Lindsay: Words, words are an interesting thing. So this kind of, kind of, I think pairs nice to them with the original question I wanted to ask you way back when, which is, have you gotten to a point where when you head into a place of work, work, work, work, work, have you started to instead look at it as a coping mechanism into a

[00:16:44] Lindsay: soon to be spiral into a place you don't wanna be 

[00:16:48] Belinda: a hundred percent because when, when I go into that mode, I start to go robotic. Yeah. I go on autopilot. Right? And so the sensory experience [00:17:00] of being a human being dissipates. 

[00:17:03] Lindsay: Yes. Oh God, hang on. Wait, I need to let that one land again. The sensory of sensory experience of being a human being dissipates.

[00:17:13] Lindsay: Because you turn into a robot, a workaholic robot that is profound Belinda.

[00:17:18] Belinda: And that's, that's no way to live at least mm-hmm that, that doesn't feel like a way I wanna live. I wanna live in the richness of the sensory experience. I wanna feel it even if it feels crappy, I wanna feel alive. 

[00:17:31] Lindsay: Yeah. You know, at the beginning of the, the pandemic.

[00:17:37] Lindsay: I mean, I think about the way that I went into overwork and overdrive, because like a lot of people that was getting into action was what helped me not feel powerless in the face of powerlessness. And, and an extreme unknown, especially for entrepreneurs, solo printers, small businesses, extreme, unknown, and the [00:18:00] massive pivot of 2020.

[00:18:02] Lindsay: Right. And not only am I looking at my business different and having to make some pretty intense pivots, but I am a business coach for new entrepreneurs. I was helping a gazillion people also pivot and, and manage what was going on. And so I went right into work. I was everywhere speaking on all the panels on all the workshops, putting together an online summit, myself for helping people pivot to, to online businesses.

[00:18:28] Lindsay: And I would say it gave me the illusion of control and safety, but it also drove me into the ground and I got so sick and just the level, like I can feel it in my heart right now, talking about the level of stress I was, I was feeling having to. Have that sense of control having to pivot my own business, having to be there for everybody else, much of those things that you were talking about having to be overly, hyper, dependable, and reliable for everyone else.[00:19:00] 

[00:19:00] Lindsay: I mean, that was just a survival mode. And I, and I think that a lot of people went into that mode. But I guess one of the silver linings, if you wanna call it, that, of that experience, is it, it really put everyone into a hyper expression of survival mode and it allowed us to, to really shine a magnifying glass on that and then make drastic changes if that's what we wanted.

[00:19:21] Belinda: Here's what's so beautiful about that to me as, as a listener to that story, is that wouldn't it be a beautiful thing? if every human's stress response was to do what you did, which is tend and befriend. Yeah. Right. Which is to lean into trying to make things better. Yeah. We'd still burn out.

[00:19:42] Belinda: We'd still probably end up getting sick and crashing and doing all those things. Like what happened for you? And it definitely happened for me too. But at least we, we kind of go down in flames trying hard to make things, help others better. 

[00:19:54] Lindsay: OK. But hang on how let's let's do away with the binary, because how can we show up for [00:20:00] other people in moments of crisis without going down crashing and burning?

[00:20:05] Belinda: That's the question, right. And that's the question that. You know, I think when we get into that stress response, like you said, of not having any control, that's when we're at most risk of that autopilot, whatever our autopilot is of kicking in. So for you it's work, work harder for me, same thing for somebody else, it might be different, but it's that stress response that takes us to whatever feels most familiar.

[00:20:30] Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. So when we're looking at now at this point, we're, we're a good two years in here and the pandemic is not the only thing that we have had to contend with. not, not that anything is new by any means, but it is more visible and more apparent. Right. And we are seeing. We are seeing things more.

[00:20:53] Lindsay: We are aware, more aware. It's the red pill, blue pill matrix thing. We've I forget which pill it is, but we've taken the pill and we can [00:21:00] see it. And so there is a lot of folks who have stepped up and have said, I'm not okay with that. I wanna be part of this change. Um, but it has been unrelenting. And people are, like you said, feeling so small and insignificant and powerless and burning out and exhausted, and really trying to stick to those values of wanting to be part of the change of wanting to make a difference.

[00:21:23] Lindsay: It's important to them, but starting to come up feeling helpless, hopeless, useless. What do we do? 

[00:21:31] Belinda: Yeah, I mean, I always think about, um, A couple things come to mind. One is context, right? Mm-hmm is thinking about things a little bit longer, longer term, which is hard when you're in this, what they've been calling for three years, unprecedented times.

[00:21:45] Belinda: But if we take a longer view on some of these things, right? Like. I mean, because I, I work on issues of women's equity and women's leadership, I think about women. And so the fact that, you know, women's reproductive rights are under attack again, uh, particularly in the us [00:22:00] and other places in the world.

[00:22:01] Belinda: And. We, I, I think of it when I look at the long term picture on these things, I think of it as, you know, we take some steps forward for, for positive change or for progress or for inclusion in whatever way we're working for that to make things better for more people and the status quo and the institutions will always push back.

[00:22:23] Belinda: There will be resistance mm-hmm because it's change. People are scared. People wanna hold onto what they have. And so. What I see is this sort of like two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward. One step back when we're in the one step back, it feels like we are losing so much ground. Yes. And that's hard.

[00:22:42] Belinda: It's just, it feels defeating, 

[00:22:44] Lindsay: but that is such a really good, um, a really good context. To hold onto like that's, that's something logically. We know these big systemic institutions do not want this change. They are fighting us tooth and nail. There's a lot of folks that are talking [00:23:00] about it's the, the, the last sort of rearing of the monsters head as we're taking it down, which can take years and years and still generations.

[00:23:08] Lindsay: But here we are. And, you know, logically people know that logically, we know that, um, but emotionally, psychologically. When you're in the mix and you're seeing the impact at a personal level at a, you know, independent, personal level. It is hard to remember that, that, that two steps forward. One step back, we've already gone to we're one back now, but we're gonna go two steps forward again.

[00:23:31] Lindsay: Let's just keep, keep moving forward. 

[00:23:34] Belinda: Yeah. And I think that's the thing is like, it's can we it's where do we choose to put our energy emotional energy particularly, right. In terms. Can we hold onto the two steps forward part. Can we, can we try not to go into the despair of the one step back? And because if we, if we live in the despair of the one step back, then it's hard to find the energy to then keep, keep being a [00:24:00] part of the next two steps forward and the next two steps forward. And it really does take all of us. 

[00:24:04] Lindsay: Yeah. And that's literally leading into the question I had just in, on deck for you, which is what do you think the importance of connection. What kind of role does that play of being connected to the other people who are two stepping with you? 

[00:24:19] Belinda: Oh, you know, I I'd really think trying to do this stuff alone is way too hard and way too lonely.

[00:24:27] Belinda: And you know, I think we have to, we have to join together. We have to have those connections to other people, um, for many reasons, but I, I also think we have to let those connections be imperfect. Mm. If we're expecting it to be ideal, right? Like everyone who wants, uh, women's equality or women's equity is gonna see this, this things the same way, and we're gonna agree on everything, then we're gonna be really disappointed when that's not the case.

[00:24:52] Lindsay: Yeah. 

[00:24:53] Belinda: So where can we find the common ground? Where can we accept the fact that our alliances [00:25:00] are not going to be perfect and everybody's still learning? Yeah. Where can we forgive each other? Yeah. When we mess up, which we all do. Yeah. And I think, you know, that, that is what if, if we, if we're looking for the ideal, we're gonna be disappointed.

[00:25:16] Belinda: Yeah. If we're looking for some common ground, we will find it. Yeah. And I think, you know, with, with these huge systemic problems, it, it really more and more, I think it's gonna come down to this ground swell. There have to be enough of. Standing up and saying no to this and yes. To that, or, unacceptable.

[00:25:38] Belinda: Yeah. I won't take it anymore, whatever that is. Yeah. 

[00:25:43] Lindsay: One of the things that I've noticed in my thinking over the past two years is how rigid it was becoming when your, your idea or, or your point about not looking for the idea, looking for the common ground, you know, A part of doing this work is coming [00:26:00] up face to face with people who.

[00:26:02] Lindsay: Opposed to your very existence in such an extreme and opposed to other people's existence, opposed to apparently humanities and the Earth's existence and, you know, again, at a systemic level, at a social level, at an individual level, it has been an incredibly divisive two years, and it has been very hard to see people that we thought.

[00:26:29] Lindsay: That we assumed understood us and loved us fight so hard for laws and systems that harm us. Yeah. And so I found my thinking, becoming so rigid and I found myself slipping into an us versus them. Right. And, and for me, what helps me with that is remembering that we are all products of this system and we are all products of systemic issues.

[00:26:54] Lindsay: We're all products of our, our. Identities. We are products of our society. We are products of so many things [00:27:00] and you talked about, I won't take that anymore and acceptable behavior, like I'm not talking about condoning behavior, that's abusive or toxic or, or in not appropriate, but I can't.

[00:27:09] Lindsay: Hold the individual responsible for systemic issues that have existed for hundreds of years and always remembering it's like that, that scene. If anybody here watches the hunger games, when cat goes back in for the second time to, to hug her games and, and the, whoever it was says to her, remember who the real enemy is, remember who we're really fighting.

[00:27:31] Lindsay: Right. And it's like, we have to remember that you and I at individual level are not the enemy. We need to be talking about this systems. And the people in power, you know, reinforcing those systems and how we're, we're dealing with that. That helped me a lot. It sounds really like, I, I, I do a lot of processing through media.

[00:27:50] Lindsay:  So I saw some, there's an account on TikTok where it's like, movies are therapy. I'm like, yeah, no joke. They're really, they really are. And this idea of remember who we're fighting, it's remember [00:28:00] what we're fighting you and I are not enemies. Can we find common ground here? 

[00:28:04] Belinda: Yeah. Absolutely. And that's, you know, us versus them usually takes us to a pretty bad place.

[00:28:10] Belinda: Yeah. Um, we've seen a lot of that. Right. We've seen a lot of really bad consequences of that in the last few years. It is I think about looking at the system. Yeah. And knowing that we all were raised in the system. Yeah. I, I have a, a neighbor who I walk my dog with sometimes, and I was talking to her about, you know, our terrible numbers of women in leadership roles.

[00:28:33] Belinda: And, and she just really simply said to me, well, you know, there's, there's still a lot of people who, who truly believe that women are not as good as men. Yep. And it like knocked me on my butt. You know, I was like the simplicity of that statement and kind of the truth of that statement was like, A big reminder that these systemic issues run so deep.

[00:28:58] Belinda: And I was like, that's, [00:29:00] that's a belief, right? That, that people still hold. 

[00:29:03] Lindsay: Yeah. I was saying that to someone the other day, I was like the greatest gas lighting. I don't know that the greatest gas lighting is thinking is gas lighting women into thinking they're inferior is gaslighting men into believing that.

[00:29:16] Lindsay: And the amount of gas like that men do to each other to actually believe that is wild. Yeah. It's gaslighting and its policing. Mm-hmm that's the other thing, right? Yeah. 

[00:29:25] Belinda: We police each other to state in the lines of whatever the system or the institution is asking us to be.

[00:29:31] Belinda: And when we go to step out of the lines, then there's a whole lot of people out there who will police us right back in. 

[00:29:37] Lindsay: Yep. A hundred percent. Yeah. So for folks who are fighting the good fight and wanna be part of the change but they're tired. You know, what advice do you have for folks who are filling the burnout, who are filling the fatigue, you know, who are losing hope?

[00:29:57] Lindsay: What is your advice for those folks?[00:30:00] 

[00:30:00] Belinda: That is a great question. You know, this is, this is an answer that's kind of surprising me as it rises up in my mind, but, you know, cuz I, because I'm, again, as I said, I'm a doer, right? I get stuff done, but what's rising up in my mind is that to trust that where our heart is yeah. Is also part of the change.

[00:30:19] Lindsay: Yeah.

[00:30:20] Belinda: And so even if we are not doing anything actively, if our heart is still in it. We are part of it and I'm, you know, I don't wanna get all woo woo. Around the whole thing, but there is, there is we are energetic and our energetic intentions have meaning and impact as well. 

[00:30:41] Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. That was perfect. I love that my whole body right now is one big goosebump.

[00:30:47] Lindsay: My hairs are standing up and, and it is so true, you know, that was what pulled me out when I was getting into the me versus them, you know, having this rigidity in my thinking, this anger in my heart, I was like, where is this anger in my heart? Cuz that's not [00:31:00] who I am. That's not who I wanna be. That's not what I'm about.

[00:31:03] Lindsay: And so I think, yeah, checking in with your heart and where is your heart at? Do you need some TLC, some love and compassion for your own self and then. Remembering that if your heart is there, that is a part of it. That is a part of the change that will affect and influence the way that you show up the way you communicate.

[00:31:21] Lindsay: If you were a content creator, the content that you create. Ugh. I love that. So with the women's leadership intensive, have you noticed. Have you noticed? Cause you've been doing it three years now. Four years. Whew. Four years. Congratulations. 

[00:31:38] Belinda: Thank you. 

[00:31:39] Lindsay: Have you noticed this is actually a two part question? Cause I wanna notice if you've, if you've noticed any shifts in the participants in the past couple years versus the first two years, but also in yourself as a leader. 

[00:31:53] Belinda: Oh, good one. So participants first I think 2020, and probably 21. I feel like [00:32:00] people had a lot of fear. Mm-hmm um, so a lot of anxiety, a lot of worry, a lot of fear.

[00:32:05] Belinda: And I think when we get into that place of fear, we start to clamp down on things, like you said about control, right? So I think a lot of people are like, well, you know, I can't take risk. And I can't just, you know, commit to something or change something because everything felt uncertain and shaky this year, as I was doing registration for 20, 22, everyone was like, bring it on.

[00:32:30] Belinda: So it was gorgeous. Like, I mean I'm just swept up in the, this energy of like, Let's get this done, bring it on. And we just had our first retreat last week, actually with a new group. And it was like, it was powerful. I mean, we call it in the intensive, but it was intense. 

[00:32:48] Lindsay: Yeah. Was there a common mission, a common pattern you saw popping up?

[00:32:56] Belinda: You know, I think what I saw there, I mean, everybody comes for their own reasons, but [00:33:00] what, what I saw consistently this year is that people are asking themselves the, the real hard questions, the reflective questions, like, you know, who am I really? And how do I want to express that in the world, through my work?

[00:33:13] Belinda: Um, you know, years past there might have been a little bit more like, oh, you know, I'm coming because I wanna, you know, level up to my next role in my company or whatever. I heard almost none of that this year around like promotions and, and status and achievement. It was really about this. Like, I need to know who I am.

[00:33:35] Lindsay: Yeah, identity identity. Yeah. Um, on, I, I recorded a podcast earlier with Keka just scoop, you know, Kea, right? Yes. And she talked about how, like globally, socially, we are going through, what did she say? I think it was a self worth crisis and I kind of counter back that I think it's an identity crisis.

[00:33:56] Lindsay: I think we socially are going through a giant identity crisis, [00:34:00] especially as we are. Stripping away capitalism and misogyny and patriarch, like, as we are stripping these away from our sense of identity and looking at what's left, that's it? 

[00:34:16] Belinda: I think that's it because, you know, we have these, these labels, um, as a way to, to sort. Keep us, you know, again, it's like keeping us in certain boxes, right? We might have like five or 10 different boxes as part of our identity. But when we look at those, it's like, how many of those did we inherit or learn from our, you know, our families, our communities, our cultures. And when we've got the time to actually reflect and ask ourselves some of the questions, then we start to, you know, take off at one side of the box and then we take off another side of the box and then we realize, oh my God, there's no box, right.

[00:34:57] Belinda: Or there doesn't have to be a box. There have to be. Yes. [00:35:00] And then what, then, then I think the real work begins. Understanding what our true identity is. 

[00:35:07] Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. When I, um, I went through a divorce 13 years ago and during that time, That box was, was removed or I was removing the box and I realized I had no sense of who I am and what I want.

[00:35:23] Lindsay: I didn't know who I was or what I wanted. And I began that journey. But now again, asking those same questions in 2020, like so many people, I realized that I was beginning or I had been. Answering those questions again, inside of a different box, who I am inside of capitalism, who I am inside inside cisgender heterosexual normativity, you know, who am I inside of these boxes?

[00:35:46] Lindsay: And, and this is a, a heady concept, but you know, for those that are listening, when you think about your identity, are you exploring your identity inside of boxes? It's it's, it's kind of mind blowing, [00:36:00] right? Like it's, it's hard to even conceptualize. Yeah. What life would be like. If we didn't, if we started to peel away all those boxes.

[00:36:08] Belinda: Yeah. And I think, you know, this is why we structure our society the way we do. It's why organizations are hierarchies. Yeah. Because it creates boxes and everybody knows what to do and who they are relative to the other people. And, you know, we start to take those things away. And what we're left with is sort of like the, again, I'm gonna do use that both and kind of language.

[00:36:25] Belinda: Yeah. But like the complexity and the simplicity, both of just being a person. Yeah. Being a person is not simple. it is. And it isn't, you know, 

[00:36:37] Lindsay: it's true. You know what it is, and it isn't, is. And it isn't, there was a, a Tiktoker i, I saw her video the other day and she said, I no longer answer the question.

[00:36:48] Lindsay: What do you do when people asked me that question? I say to them, do you wanna know what I'm passionate about? Or do you wanna know how I survive capitalism?

[00:36:59] Lindsay: [00:37:00] And I, it took me a second to wrap my head around that because what we do for business for work, that is how we survive capitalism. But what am I passionate about is she says, no one ever asked me about the, they wanna know what I'm passionate about. Right? Yeah. So, so if I were to say that, if you were to say to me, let's role play.

[00:37:18] Lindsay: If I were to say to you, Belinda, what do you do? And you were to respond to me. . 

[00:37:23] Belinda: Do you, do you wanna know my passion or do you wanna know how I survive capitalism? I wanna know your passions. Absolutely. 

[00:37:30] Lindsay: Let's hear some. Let's give us some, oh gosh. 

[00:37:34] Belinda: One of my passions is I, as much as I'm an introvert, I actually love people. I think people are awesome. Most people

[00:37:48] Belinda: so I think one of my passions is, is working with people and it's not, it's not even helping them or coaching them or whatever it's being with people when they [00:38:00] start to also feel that way about themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that hit me in the heart.

[00:38:06] Belinda: Why do you think that that fulfills you in some way? Hmm. I feel like there is a sense and, and I'm gonna use the word truth, even though like, again, we could get into the, what is truth conversation, but there's something about it that feels true. There's something about it that feels core, right. If we can just come back to the beauty of, again, being a person you know, the simplicity and complexity of that.

[00:38:31] Belinda: We all have so much potential, you know, I, and we see this we see this more in kids, right? Like, and then we start to sort of box the potential out of kids as they get older. And we've all kind of lived that. Yeah. Most of us have lived that experience. It's like, why don't we see that about ourselves when we're 50 or whatever, 27 or 87?

[00:38:55] Belinda: Because the whole of humanity is still there inside of. Still like, [00:39:00] again, it's the richness of life, you know, that, and I think we've gotten so wrapped up in the surviving capitalism side that somehow we've devalued the richness of life, of being alive of, you know, what does it feel like to actually, um, I dunno, smell the P and E or hug the person or.

[00:39:23] Belinda: Taste the chocolate or whatever it is, you know, like that, that the, the moment by moment richness of, of being alive and then I was being alive. Yep. Now that I'm getting older too, I look at that and I go, oh my God, I wasted so much time. 

[00:39:39] Lindsay: So for folks who don't wanna waste time for folks who are like, I'm done wasting time, or I don't wanna look back and think about the time I wasted, what are some simple steps that they can do now?

[00:39:49] Belinda: Yeah. Oh gosh. Good question. You know, I think it's, um, Again, I'm gonna come back to values. I think when we understand what our values are and we start making [00:40:00] decisions from those values, we make different decisions. So if, you know, in my example, the workaholism thing, yeah. That feeds one of my values.

[00:40:09] Belinda: Right. It, it feeds my value of accomplishment and con contribution and all of those kinds of things. So yes, there's some, there's some good things that come out of that, but. When I, when I start to compromise everything else for that, that's when I start to experience the downsides.

[00:40:26] Belinda: Yeah. So if I can hold the, like all of my values, like say, you know, I try to, I always think of it as like, what are your top three to five? Right. And they, some of them might be intention with one another, which is okay. But if I can think about those values and make decisions from them more holistically, then I'm gonna be making different decisions.

[00:40:44] Belinda: Mm-hmm right. I might say no to something instead of yes. Yeah. I might put my phone down and pay attention to my teenager. I might, you know, wake up on a Sunday morning and decide that it's pajamas all day. That's it? You know, but I, I need time to kind.[00:41:00] Get get off the treadmill long enough. To decide something. 

[00:41:04] Lindsay: And so it sounds like that's a really important first step for folks is where can you get off the Treadmill and it doesn't have to be permanently , but where can you get off the treadmill for an hour, for a day, for a week and just tune in, listen to yourself. Mm-hmm, ask yourself, like, where are my values?

[00:41:22] Lindsay: Where am I living them? Where am I living out of alignment with them? And I think sometimes when we hear. Live by your values. What are your values? There can be a bit of a judgment around that, or a moralizing as something is good or bad. And it's not about that. It's, it's really what is important to you.

[00:41:39] Lindsay: I always look at it as what, how do I wanna live my life before I die? I'm very morbid that way, but I think if I die, What will I be sad that I didn't do sad that I didn't say, sad in a way I didn't live my life. And that's back to your, your point about what's in your heart, right?

[00:41:59] Lindsay: [00:42:00] And like, if you can look at your values, not as something that you need to morally judge yourself for having what is important to you and what do you wanna do with your time on this earth? 

[00:42:08] Belinda: That's it, that's it right there because the, the moral judgment side of it is often, again, is something that we learned.

[00:42:14] Belinda: Mm. Right. And so, or that somebody else is trying to impose on us. Yeah. And it's, it is, it's like, you know, we have a huge list of values that we work with, but it's like not any of them are good nor bad. Mm-hmm . So it's not about the judgment. It's about what is actually meaningful and important to you. 

[00:42:30] Lindsay: So women's leadership intensive. You are changing the world and changing lives and flipping what it means to be a leader on its head, what it means to lead from feminist values, from inclusive, collaborative values from hearing ourselves and stepping into that role of leadership in there's a person listening today.

[00:42:53] Lindsay: Who's like, I'm so afraid to step into leadership. I'm so afraid of [00:43:00] judgment of exclusion, a imposter syndrome, whatever that looks like. What advice do you have for that person listening right now? 

[00:43:10] Belinda: Oh, yeah. I mean, I think the real, like what what's come up for me a lot lately is this thing, you know, this, this phrase that, that plays over and over in my mind, which is, it is so important for you to lead as you.

[00:43:23] Belinda: Mm. There is no point in my mind to have a bunch more leaders who are just doing what's what everyone did before them. Yeah. Cause then we're gonna end up in the same place and we need to be in a, we need to move to better places. Right? So we think what we do doesn't have an impact, but it does, you know, women's leadership intensive is small.

[00:43:45] Belinda: We work with like on and the intensive program is like 18 people a year at the most. Right. It's small. We're not like I'm not, I'm not up on stage changing thousands and millions of people, but that small impact matters a lot for those [00:44:00] 18 women. Mm-hmm. And us leading as ourselves. We may not be able to change the organization, the community, the country, the policy, whatever it might be, but we can change what happens in our interaction with one other person.

[00:44:13] Belinda: Yeah. Or with our team that we have dinner with or whatever that might be. And those little things where, I mean, you hesitate to even call them little because they matter so much. But when we think of all those things, they matter each and every one of them and they also add up to really have bigger impact.

[00:44:31] Belinda: So I think it's starting to think of yourself as being able to have impact and that even what we consider to be small impacts matter a lot. Yeah. And we have that choice every time. Right. You know, you're in the grocery store lineup and, and you're running out of time and it's taking a long time. You have the choice in that moment to have the impact with what you say and do, right.

[00:44:52] Belinda: You can be frustrated and impatient or you can be loving and kind. And it's like, sometimes we end up being frustrated and we gotta [00:45:00] forgive ourselves for that. But just make no mistake that what we choose in that moment does have an impact. 

[00:45:05] Lindsay: Yeah. And, and I think you make a good point too, which is that leadership is everywhere and it's happening all the time.

[00:45:11] Lindsay: You don't have to be a CEO of a company to be a leader. Not at all. Opportunities for leadership are minute by minute, day by day in the way that you show up and always checking in with, does this align with what I value what's important to me. 

[00:45:26] Belinda: Yeah. And the other thing I would say about, you know, stepping into any kind of leadership role is.

[00:45:31] Belinda: Yes, it is risky, right? If you stick your head up to, to, to try to have a positive impact, then there it's possible that you're gonna get pushback. Yeah, it's possible. You're gonna get fought or you're gonna get resistance. You're gonna get somebody who tries to get you back in your lane and back in your box.

[00:45:48] Belinda: Mm. And so is just to accept that sometimes that's gonna happen sometimes it's gonna hurt. Yeah. And we all need to surround ourselves with people. Yeah. Who we can trust, who [00:46:00] we can be vulnerable with, who truly have our back, who truly love us, because we're gonna take some knocks. Yeah. And, you know we need a safe place to recover and to rebuild our resilience.

[00:46:12] Belinda: Yeah. So we can, we can stand back up the next day 

[00:46:15] Lindsay: and what you just said there too, that they will try to push us back in our lane and back in our box, those are two different things because they will try to push you back in the box, but your lane is your lane. And just because that person doesn't like you being in your lane, That's okay.

[00:46:33] Lindsay: They're gonna try to push you back in their box and you might even go back in that box for a little while, but if you are a leader, you are most likely. And I, and, and we've talked about this in the past, in different Facebook lives and things we've done. What is a leader? Right? A leader is innovative. A leader is about change.

[00:46:49] Lindsay: Not about status quo. And so, yes, you'll have people try to push you back into the box of status quo. But if, you know, as a leader, big or small, it all counts. You have [00:47:00] a path that you are carving. It's going to be full of browned bushes and, you know, slugs and scary things, but you're carving that path out.

[00:47:11] Lindsay: So don't let anybody tell you that's not your path. If that's your path, carve it out. Yeah. Yeah. It's that, it's that trusting ourselves, but we have to, we have to spend some time with ourselves. Mm-hmm right. To be able to say, okay, this is my path. This is my value. This is a decision I wanna make. We have to slow down long enough to be able to think about these things.

[00:47:34] Belinda: And, and a, a great friend of mine said on the weekend, I was chatting with her about the retreat. And she said, well, you know, you're in the process of metabolizing it. And I loved that word because we need time to metabolize our experiences and what happens to us. Right. And we think about metabolism. It's like we gotta digest it, process it, transform it and integrate it.

[00:47:55] Lindsay: And then excrete the waste people because you don't need to keep [00:48:00] all of it. love it. Okay. That's my new ad. That's my new ad excrete. Don't forget to excrete people. Don't forget to excrete you have a fun, high impact gift for listeners here today. Tell us a little bit about this really cool, uh, video series that you've got. 

[00:48:18] Belinda: Yeah, it's called inspired to lead and it's tips to lead. Like it matters. So a lot of us don't even think of ourselves as leaders, right.

[00:48:28] Belinda: We don't necessarily go through our day going, I'm a leader. And I have to say, like I do leadership work all the time and I have to remind myself because being a leader can feel like a scary thing. A scary, scary thing to take on. Right. So the inspired to lead series is really, um, helping people to just start to see themselves as a leader and to recognize that how they do that and how they show up matters.

[00:48:51] Belinda: And so it's offering some insights, some tools, some new ways of thinking about that. And then it shows up in bite sized [00:49:00] pieces once a week, so that we can kind of take. Metabolize it and then be ready for the next piece the next week.

[00:49:06] Lindsay: I love it all brilliant. 

[00:49:08] Lindsay: Okay. Friends, I have to say we are doing a bit of an insert here because before I hit publish on this podcast, Belinda has written herself a book.

[00:49:17] Lindsay: So give us a second. We're gonna tell you all about it. 

[00:49:20] Belinda, you have a book coming out? Oh my gosh. Tell us all about it. 

[00:49:26] Lindsay: Well, I never set out to write a book, Lindsay. It just kind of happened because, um, having done this work in, gender equality and equity in leadership for the past, I don't know, eight years or something, People have come a long way in terms of what they know about that topic, but there's still a lot of people who really don't understand the gross inequality that women in leadership face.

[00:49:52] Lindsay: Our numbers are not getting better in lots of cases, and I look across, you know, any sort of [00:50:00] leadership domain, whether it's politics or business, or. Pretty much anything. And we still see the same players at the table making the same kinds of decisions, and it's not working. So this book is really about letting people know about what those gaps are.

[00:50:15] Lindsay: But it also turns the corner towards optimism and hopefulness because it looks at. What difference we can make. So what are the changes we can make to actually get to better decisions, more equity, more equality, more women in leadership roles. I love that. And one of the things that you had mentioned before when we were talking was that it is, What you had considered a basic book, but you realized most people don't know this stuff.

[00:50:41] Lindsay: And I think that's what's really important is there's a lot of, Instagram quotes and a lot of headlines in articles and a lot of, Big words being thrown around, but what does that actually look like? What let us look, what that representation actually looks like and let's break this down into its basic components.

[00:50:56] Lindsay: Cause people can really sink their teeth into it and understand. And then [00:51:00] as you said, there's that hope, what can we do about it? That's right. And I mean, I'm looking at this stuff all day, every day, so it makes sense, right? That I see it everywhere I look. But you know, a couple of quick examples, like we have, we.

[00:51:13] Lindsay: You know very few women who've ever been first ministers in the country of Canada, progressive western country. Right? We criticize the us. Our numbers are not better. Yeah. I'll tell you they're not. Right. Or if we look at business, the people making the big decisions that have economic impact, community impact, environmental impact, most of them are not.

[00:51:34] Lindsay: They, those groups of decision makers are not representative, and when we look at the numbers, it's a huge problem. Yeah. Oh my gosh. All right. So excited for the, the book launch. When does it officially come out? January 10th, 2023. Woohoo. All right, friends, you can head over to women's leadership intensive.ca to get yourself on the wait list for the book. 

[00:51:54] Lindsay: And then grab yourself an advanced copy.

[00:51:57] Lindsay: You can get to learning about what's going on here, and [00:52:00] then find out how you can be a part of the change, a part of the solution. So friends you're able to go into the show notes and you can access, this video series, all points of contact for Belinda.

[00:52:11] Lindsay: You can learn more about the women's leadership intensive. It is a brilliant program that has gone, gone through some amazing evolutions with each cohort that goes through. If folks wanna connect with you.

[00:52:23] Lindsay: I know you've got a few socials on here. Where is the place that you hang out the most? 

[00:52:27] Belinda: Probably Instagram. And I'm pretty on top of my Instagram messages. So, and I'm, I'm a very like person to person. So like, if you have a question, if you wanna chat about something, like reach out and we'll have that conversation

[00:52:40] Lindsay: perfect. And on Instagram, it's gonna be in the show notes, but if you happen to wanna go there right now, it's women's dot leadership dot intensive. All right, Belinda, one final question. Before we wrap things up here the podcast work less, play more.

[00:52:55] Lindsay: That is my mantra. I wanna hear yours. So fill in the blank for us. Work [00:53:00] less blank, more. 

[00:53:02] Belinda: Ooh, juicy. Oh, I mean, again, this just bubbled up inside me, but it's like work less, love more. 

[00:53:09] Lindsay: Mm. Yes. I love that. I love that. Who should people love more? 

[00:53:13] Belinda: Well, I mean, this is gonna sound like a cliche, but like we all need it and we have to give it to ourselves first.

[00:53:20] Belinda: Yeah. Um, Easier said than done, cuz I don't think a lot of us learned how yep. You know, so that's a learning process. I think we have to give ourselves time to figure that one out and wrestle with the discomfort of that. I love what you said earlier about loving the people who don't agree with you.

[00:53:37] Belinda: Mm-hmm you know, like if we are going to find a pathway to common ground, then. For and against is not gonna be the way like there. We have to, we have to find compassion. We have to find love for those people. 

[00:53:52] Lindsay: I love it. Work less. Love more friends. Belinda, thank you so much for hanging out with me today.

[00:53:57] Lindsay: This has been as always [00:54:00] amazing. I'm glad we actually got to record this conversation. 

[00:54:03] Lindsay: Thank you so much. I've loved it. I love all of our conversations and I'm also just so grateful that you've been on this journey since the beginning of the women's leadership intensive and you have taught every single year in the program.

[00:54:16] Lindsay: I love it. 

[00:54:17] Lindsay: Friends, Thank you so much for listening in. You'll find all the links to all the resources we discussed over on theradicalconnector.com/podcast. Entrepreneurship is a tool for creating the life of your wildest dreams. It is not meant to take over your entire life. Entrepreneurship has a magical ability to transform your skills, passions, and big ideas into a business that can change the world. But it will also eat up all of your time, money, and energy

[00:54:45] Lindsay: if you let it. If you're a service based entrepreneur and are ready to work less and play more, get on my email list or contact me directly and let's talk about how we can get your business working for you so you can build the life of your wildest dreams and get out there and [00:55:00] change the world. Happy connecting I will see you online.